In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? Although I like to poke my Active Duty friends in the chest by asking, What do you love about military aviation that you cant also get in the Guard or Reserves? Ill admit that there are some benefits to Active Duty military service. Vertical Reference Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. My formation barely ever conducts social events. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. Nope. Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. For the Army, the costs are much cheaper. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. A Talk With The US Armys Underground Warfare Expert. Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. Press J to jump to the feed. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Army and Air Force use this pay. Apache course end? (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. It's not about harassments, it how things get done. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. F-35s in feature image: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky. His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. Such changes may affect my status, If you receive the Grad School option, the option costs you nothing because GrADSO runs concurrent with your flight school ADSO. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. Press J to jump to the feed. You must understand, the Army has an ace in the hole when filling the Warrant Officer aviation pipeline. This used to be unheard of. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes.
With the ADSO now at 10 years after flight school, let's - reddit Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10.
What is everyone's take on the new ADSO for aviation? However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. Also get's a TS which is money, but dealing with army IT infrastructure is frustrating. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. Your previous content has been restored. He is the author of thejumo brief, a free weekly newsletter for Army leaders. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems.
What tf is my Aviation ADSO? BrADSO? : r/army The Army has had pilot shortages off and on ever since I can remember. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. NO WOFT POSTS. This used to be unheard of.
The First 10 Year ADSO Class : Armyaviation - reddit The army has never been good at personnel management. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. I'd sign a 15 year ADSO if they gave me an age waiver (I'm only 35 not 65!). 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Were looking at troops selected for flight training in the fiscal year 2021 and beyond.. Thoughts anyone? There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. The earlier you can, INTERVIEW PREP PACKAGE (eCourse + 1-on-1's), 1 HOUR INTERVIEW PREP ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), 1 HOUR APP REVIEW ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop, The Ultimate Guide to Earning a Pilot Slot in Air Force ROTC, Part 1, As Stan would be finishing up his 5-year ADSC, hed need to be shopping for Guard and Reserve UPT board announcements on. There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. We need better leadership courses that foster problem solving, the importance of critical thinking, and using surrounding talent to identify the cause of issues/solutions. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. His administration's definition of readiness was turning maximum amount of red chicklets on spreadsheets to green, sending people over and over to the field and CTCs without any break, and endless rotations to Korea and Europe. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. I believe you must pass SERE and another leadership course before phase 1 flight. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer.
10 year ADSO - Page 2 - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. 1 Sacknuts93 3 yr. ago Probably not. Hah oh good catch. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation.
Army Aviation: Alternatives to the 10-year Service Obligation These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. In a worst-case scenario, hes looking at: Wow, thats a lot of moving and time away from home! 10 is nuts. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. Army, Coast Guard . 10 years is a good rate of return for the experience needed in being a pilot. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. That's the Army's ace in the hole. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! If you go to a civilian school and the Army fully or partially funds that course, you will incur 3 times the school time for ADSO if the course is over 60 days. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. This is doubly applicable for aviation formations. How long is Army Warrant Officer School? People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. What a joke. While I completely understand the desire of people to fly, there is more to it than that. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. That being said, they let you fly as your primary duty and fly cooler airframes. Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. I want to do it for as long as I can. That's my issue (age waiver). Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? Welcome back, fellow aviators! You're losing highly skilled aviators that took millions of dollars and 5-10 years to train. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? June 5, 2020 in General Military Helicopter Discussions. amp, Army directive, AD 2021-31, approved Sept. 10, 2021, and effective Oct. 1, 2021, will reset the time required for aviator warrant officers (military occupational specialty 152 through 155) to. Due to the flight school ADSO and timeline, you will be on active duty for about 7 years in order to fulfill the obligations incurred through flight training. For more information, please see our By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC.
Upload or insert images from URL. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. What are a few of the issues which the Army could resolve for aviators? Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. It explains how to perform well in your training, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a. is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about military flying that made you want to do it in the first place?. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then?
New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation - United States Army Expect bonuses to disappear as well. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. It turns out that even one year is a big difference. ADDED QUESTION: What, in your opinion, is the average view of Army Aviation within the perspectives of your peers?
Question for the Salty Dogs: 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation - reddit These investments set the Army apart from all the branches, he said. Well look at three cases: Although each of these career paths has potential for almost infinite variation, this diagram represents likely versions of each: Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. People are tired. It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. Clear editor.
The Army Needs a Better Solution for its Pilot Shortage Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis.
Army Career Satisfaction Program Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. change without notice to me. The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. However, many of my buddies werent sure yet if they were willing to commit to a decade of service in exchange for a pilot slot. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! The answer is clear. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . reenlistment document. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. The pay and benefits arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. U.S. Army UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters from the New Jersey National Guards 1-150th Assault Helicopter Battalion sit on the flight line during sunset at the Army Aviation Support Facility, Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., Nov. 8, 2018. F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. Getting in just under the wire. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List.
10 Year ADSO Discussion - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. The. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). The security accrediation level of this site is Unclassified FOUO and below. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. ADSO is completed. Is a 10-year Active Duty ADSC so terrible that its worth passing up? 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. I'm roaring and ready to go. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. Guess what? As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. The Graduate School Option (GRADSO) portion of the CSP program continues to be suspended since YG2014 pending officer corps reshaping efforts. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. . The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. While the goal of the CSA's program was a well intentioned effort to make up for a dearth of aviation experience at senior ranks, it wasn't well received and Congress bit back. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. Today were going to compare the more common Active Duty career path with the Ultimate one that Ive recommended so heavily. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. Back then the Army had a hard-on for pilots.