6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

Seventh 1.00 In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Shift the transmission to Neutral. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. Powertrain Expo Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. All rights reserved. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. I & II About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. if (yr!=2012) From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . yr=d.getFullYear(); The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. full. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. vehicle weights. Reverse 4.87. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. See how the ratios have swapped places? 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. None of the above categories describe me. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. But its interesting to note that there is a very low cover/piston failure rate for the 4L60-E TMBX converter. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. Concerns can range from any of the following: These drivability concerns can be mistaken for transmission malfunctions. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. August 8, 2022. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. The customer approves a teardown. JT. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. Copyright 2012 At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. Tenth 0.64 The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. Third 2.15 Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Im with you on AFM is crap. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. $499.00. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. Eighth 0.85 Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. * WILL ALLOW USE . The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. Quick 4 Stand-Alone Transmission Control System TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. Reactions: me32. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest Thought's? Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. Thx Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. This took the dealership a much longer period of time in acquiring these bolts for Brian to complete the job. Exceptional torque rating. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. What is your recomendation for towing? The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. Members After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. NonStop-Transmission. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. Gears Magazine The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Note, some customers may complain of a converter type whine noise coming from the transmission. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Hi Jeff, There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. Thank you. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. Your email address will not be published. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Learn how your comment data is processed. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. Reply. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case).